In 1683, the Ottomans laid siege to Vienna for 61 days, in what was known as the second Turkish siege of Vienna. Suleiman and his army had arrived after a long trudge and had come through heavy rains with limited supplies. Islam is the religion of more than half of Europe, not by compulsion or force of arms, but simple acceptance. On the 27th September 1529, around 125,000 Ottoman Soldiers began besieging the city of Vienna, a major stronghold for the Holy Roman Empire. Finally, the king of Poland and his army of allied forces appeared on the horizon. Question: Who won the Siege of Vienna? The empire was already suffering the internal problems that would send it into steady relative decline over the next 200 years. The Ottoman siege of Vienna. The following morning, the army swept down on the largely unprepared and poorly defended Turkish encampments below. It’s also my understanding that by the 1680’s Spain had pretty much given up in the Netherlands after a hundred years of rebellion by the Dutch. Thus by mid-18th century, on either side of a line that might have been drawn between Denmark and Italy, Europe would have been divided between a newly-empowered and immensely-rich Muslim Ottoman Empire to the east and a much diminished western Europe. Fought against the Ottoman empire and led by Polish King Jan III Sobieski, this achievement forbid the Ottomans from taking over the continent. Jack Steiner QPM is the former Deputy Assistant Commissioner to the Metropolitan Police, New Naples Yard, and the former HM Assistant Inspector of Constabulary at the Home Office. On one side was the Imperial House of Osman, which claimed descent from Noah and … One of the main reasons why the Ottomans failed to seize Vienna, was poor leadership. On the other hand, the Ottomans would still have been badly overextended and overstrained. By 1683 the Scientific Revolution is already in full swing, and the beginning of the Industrial Revolution in England is just a generation away. And while Austria was certainly an important and popular enemy, Bourbon France also fought wars with Spain, Venice, the Netherlands, Bavaria, Prussia, Russia, Sweden and, above all, Britain. The historic defeat at Vienna led to a series of catastrophes for the Ottomans, from the second battle of Mohacs to the fall of Belgrade and the Russian seizure of Azov. Austria-Hungary, Prussia). You need to explain why the fall of a single city, however strategically important, would cause all these allies to abandon the fight. But there’s just no way that an Ottoman victory in 1683 would have led to an Ottoman super-empire dominating everything east of “a line from Denmark to Italy”. The battle was won and Vienna was saved. Our pieces offer challenging opinions from a range of spectrums; that’s why we love hosting a platform for them. The Siege of Vienna, in 1529, was the first attempt by the Ottoman Empire to capture the city of Vienna, Austria. Best of luck with your ‘O’ levels. they are so ahead of their times! The true record is a distortion, but we are unaware of this fact and its implications for us all today. The second siege of vienna began, but the Ottomans had taken vienna, so Austria& Hungary collapsed. Just some comments on bits of your article: “Alongside them are soaring Catholic cathedrals and synagogues of surpassing beauty.” – as far as I know before the Ottoman reforms there were severe restrictions on church buildings throughout the Empire (For instance Greek Orthodox churches were not allowed to be built with domes). In the summer of 1683, the main army of the Ottoman Empire, a large and well-equipped force, besieged Vienna. The one thing I agree though is that probably the Ottomans were not as brutal/intolerant as commonly portrayed in Western circles; after all the Balkan peoples still remain predominantly Christian despite having endured centuries of Ottoman occupation. The Ottomans began the attack with an aim at stopping the deployment of the Holy League troops. It’s true that the brutality of the Ottomans has been greatly exaggerated by Balkan nationalists and some historians. His brother-in-law, Archduke Ferdinand I of Austria, brother of Holy Roman Emperor Charles V, claimed the vacant Hungarian throne. They give all kinds of rights to all their community members, as well as pay for much of the entertainment venues, and as long as these people respect them, the mafia is good to them. Before 1683, the central and lower Danube — over 1500 miles of it, all the way down to the Black Sea — had already been in Ottoman hands for 150 years. Put simply, the attitude of most Europeans to Islam is influenced by a ‘folk-memory’ that has lain in our unconscious like an incubus for at least five centuries. Incidentally, the word is ‘snigger’ not ‘snicker’. History Themes. The siege was lifted, the Ottomans withdrew, and Europe was ‘saved’ for Christendom. In 1683 the Ottoman Grand Vizier Kara Mustafa marched up the Danube with the objective of conquering the city of Vienna. What would have happened if the siege ended in a Turkish victory? The battle was fought by the Holy Roman Empire led by the Habsburg Monarchy and the Polish–Lithuanian Co… The Sultan tried once more … The book covers the siege itself in great detail without being laborious. The failure to take Vienna marked the end of Turkish expansion into Europe and was followed by the diversion of … The United States of America would not have developed along the lines that we know it now. The Ottomans and the Italians pushed through munich. In 1529 the Ottoman Empire made a determined effort to capture Vienna, the capital of the Hapsburg Austrian Empire. What if the Ottomans won the Siege of Vienna? Vienna has fallen and Kara Mustafa Pasha’s forces have occupied the city. It all ended with the humiliating treaty of Karlowitz, by which the Ottomans lost Hungary, Transylvania, Azov, the Morea, and all the Adriatic north of Montenegro. Poland and the Ottomans were enemies, but that wasn't the main reason they came to the aid of Vienna. They laid siege to the city in July. At a time when travel by road was virtually impossible and sea travel dangerous and uncertain, by controlling the Danube as far as Germany, the most important commercial route to the east would have been in Ottoman hands. To provide muslim narrative on current affairs and cover up the truth. The Hapsburgs inherited all the Low Countries together in the early 1500s, but in 1560 the northern part — what is now “the Netherlands” — broke away. What if the Ottomans won the Siege of Vienna? New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, More posts from the HistoricalWhatIf community, Press J to jump to the feed. To give a voice to young muslims and the wider muslim community by creating a platform for a one sided and biased narrative. In August 1526, Sultan Suleiman I decisively defeated the forces of King Louis II of Hungary at the Battle of Mohács, paving the way for the Ottomans to gain control of south-eastern Hungary; the childless King Louis was killed, possibly by drowning when he attempted to escape the battlefield. And technology transfer through defectors did happen; the walls of Constantinople were battered down by guns maintained and aimed by a Hungarian master gunner. The Ottomans did tolerate other religions, but they did not allow them an equal position with Islam. And Vienna and Venice both never fell to the Ottomans. The victory at Vienna set the stage for the reconquest of Hungary and (temporarily) some of the Balkan lands in the following years by Louis of Baden, Maximilian Emmanuel of Bavaria and Prince Eugene of Savoy. Prof Wheatcroft has done thorough job of researching and recounting the events leading up to and beyond the epic Siege of Vienna. And it’s not too late folks,,,,they still have lots to give us, if we let them…. The whole of eastern Europe, from Muscovy to the Rhine would have been in the Sultan’s sphere of control. Progress in science had stopped. The myth of the bearded and turbaned warrior wielding his scimitar and kidnapping virgin maids for his harem, has now been replaced by the fiction that beyond the shores of Europe the world is entirely peopled by bearded and turbaned warriors armed with explosives and AK47s, who wish us nothing but pain and suffering. It seems rather more likely they’d end up bogged down in Lower Austria defending their conquest while the Russians, Poles and Venetians carved off pieces around their periphery. The reason for this explosion of influence is easy to see. It is 13th September 1683 and the Ottomans have beaten off a half-hearted attempt by the advance guard of a small Polish army to raise the siege. It was the policy of the ottomans to convert the largest/most beautiful church in a newly conquered city (e.g. Without the many wars, if al Andalusia never fell from Muslim Rule the world would have been by far more advanced than we see today. But what might have happened if the Poles had failed to arrive in time? The campaign that is often referred to as the “Siege of Vienna” (a more accurate title would be the “Second Ottoman Siege of Vienna”) was really all about ego. Keep in mind that the Ottomans didn’t win a single major war against a European power after 1683; they managed a couple of draws against the Russians, and one against the Austrians, but otherwise it was an unbroken record of losses. Despite its size, the Turkish army was demoraliz… Despatch-riders have set off for Constantinople to announce the victory and to call upon the Sultan to send reinforcements to garrison his new prize. To promote islamic change in Britain through propaganda. By 1700, all of Hungary, most of Austria, the Ukraine and much of Poland and Saxony would have been part of the Ottoman Empire or client states owing allegiance to the Sultan. Nov 12, 2017 #1 The Ottomans won the Battle of Vienna … etc. Why would anyone want to leave that kind of a life, and why fight it ?! The battle of Vienna or siege of Vienna in 1683 changed the course of European history forever. The Imp… The Americans saw what happens in europe, as in fear that the Ottomans are going to rule the world declared war on the Ottoman Empire. The dry summer season meant that the Ottoman army proceeded faster then usual across Hungary, to reach Vienna … The time of the Caliphate of Córdoba was a Golden Age for relative tolerance for other religions and progress in science. So I’m not sure whether taking Vienna would have enriched the Ottoman Empire greatly anyway; on the other hand, taking Venice or Florence would have done so. by Ludwig Heinrich Dyck. The Austrians made raids against Ottoman soldiers attempting to enter the city. How would the Turks have continued into Europe and where would they have stopped? The Ottomans really wanted Austria to cede Royal Hungary (what is now northern Hungary and Slovakia), and maybe (a big maybe) parts of Lower Austria to prevent the Habsburgs from mucking around in Hungary again. And if the real truth were to be told; the real truth! The Americans saw what happens in europe, as in fear that the Ottomans are going to rule the world declared war on the Ottoman Empire. So even if Austria is knocked completely out of the game, the Bourbons are going to have plenty of wars. Posted by 5 years ago. The siege took place from September 27 to October 15, 1529. This was a large empire that was centered on the German-speaking lands of modern Austria and its capital was Vienna. This day is also the day the Ottoman’s leader Kara Mustafa sent a demand for surrender to the city. This happened when John III Sobieski had sent relief troops to Vienna. Siege of Vienna, (Sep-Oct 1529). why, if the whole world would have been run by the mafia, we wouldn’t have had all these wars. The lifting of the siege marked the beginning of the … Bakers Celebrate. Just like they did with Hagia Sophia in Constantinople. See more ideas about battle of vienna, vienna, battle. As A J P Taylor used to tell his students, “History is what those with power want you to believe has happened, not necessarily what actually happened”. In real life, the battle was a decisive Austrian victory which prevented Austria's complete annihilation by the Ottomans. The Tsar of Russia, confronted by a strong and prosperous Ottoman Empire on the western and southern borders would have had to meet the needs of the vast population and deal with social inequality. As with the first siege in 1529, this too was unsuccessful and Vienna could not be captured. The Siege of Vienna took place in 1529. His Grand Vizier, Kara Mustafa Pasha, marched north through the Balkans from Constantinople with an army of 300,000 and on 14th July 1683 the Ottomans surrounded Vienna and laid siege to what was then the third largest city in Europe. From that would have flowed great riches and even greater influence. I personally do not think that the outcome of the battle would have in any way diminished the Christian resistance to or will to resist Ottoman expansion to central/Western Europe. These remote regions of eastern Europe were Muslim lands with a mosque in most communities and a legal system based upon Islamic Law. It is considered the turning point in the westward expansion of the Ottomans and it is an interesting case study for any student of warfare. If Vienna and Venice, both much easier to get any army to than the rest of Italy could hold out against the Ottomans then I don't think simply possessing Malta is going to spell sudden doom for Italy. The dry summer season meant that the Ottoman army proceeded faster then usual across Hungary, to reach Vienna by early August. Alongside them are soaring Catholic cathedrals and synagogues of surpassing beauty. The Siege of Vienna, in 1529, was the first attempt by the Ottoman Empire to capture the city of Vienna, Austria. Siege of Vienna: The Siege of Vienna was a battle between the Ottoman Empire and the Habsburg forces. The Ottomans were already in decline,and had been for some time.The resurgence under the Kopruli Grand Viziers ended with their deaths,and so even if Vienna had been taken in 1683,Turk gains would have been temporary rather than permanent. The second siege of vienna began, but the Ottomans had taken vienna, so Austria& Hungary collapsed. They were a … To commemorate the victory, and the role they played in saving their city, the bakers created a … See more ideas about battle of vienna, vienna, battle. In 1529 the Ottomans had laid siege to Vienna but had been beaten back. The Siege of Vienna, in 1529, was the first attempt by the Ottoman Empire to capture the city of Vienna, Austria. It all ended with the humiliating treaty of Karlowitz, by which the Ottomans lost Hungary, Transylvania, Azov, the Morea, and all the Adriatic north of Montenegro. The main turkish attack was repulsed while their reinforcements from Germany and Poland, led by the famous Jan III Sobieski, charged agaisnt the ottoman lines and the turks lost 15,000 men and retreated. Roman Empire When? Directions: Using evidence from the documents above, respond to the task below in the space provided. It’s not clear how adding another couple of hundred miles in lower Austria is going to provide “great riches and even greater influence”. Introduction. However, after the 10th century, little tolerance for other religions was left in Andalusia when the Almohads took control. The only way they could move another couple of hundred miles further north and west would be by ravaging Austria for loot and forage — which would pretty much nullify the point of capturing it in the first place. share. Dec 16, 2020 - Explore Bill Barber's board "Battle of Vienna", followed by 407 people on Pinterest. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. It becomes rapidly obvious that Wheatcroft has certain biases early on: The Ottomans were awesome (with the notable exceptions of Mehmed IV and Kara Mustafa) as an empire and a military power; the Habsburgs were middling mediocrities (with the exception of … For nearly two long months, from July 14 to early September 1683, Vienna endured the siege from the Ottoman Empire. I guess honesty is not a valued attribute of the Platform. What would have happened if the siege ended in a Turkish victory? The freedom the mafia gives! The Siege of Vienna. Driven from Austria, the Habsburg monarchy would have clung on to their outpost in Spain, but there would have been no Austria-Hungary. On the political front, the Ottoman Empire had been providing military assistance to the Hungarians and to non-Catholic minorities in Habsburg-occupied portions of Hungary.There, in the years preceding the siege, widespread unrest had become open rebellion upon Leopold I's pursuit of Counter-Reformation principles and his desire to crush Protestantism. save. Kara … They couldn’t pull that off even in the 1500s, when they were stronger and Europe was weaker. He did not inspire any loyalty, and he tried to terrify everyone to ensure that he was obeyed. Second, the Hapsburg Emperor Leopold showed considerable skill at building and holding together a multi-power coalition — including Venice, Poland, and Russia — against the Ottoman threat. and the knowledge that it spreads! For tactical and economic reasons, the Ottomans had long wanted to take Vienna and the Austrian lands from the Habsburg Monarchy. Forums. The Siege of Vienna was an attempt by the Ottoman Empire, led by Suleiman the Magnificent, to sack the capital of Hapsburg Austria. The Ottomans won the Battle of Vienna. So there is the possibility that the Holy Roman Empire's control in central Germany is severely weakened and perhaps collapses earlier than in OT. That’s just how they were wired. The relief of Vienna on September 12, 1683. Matthias Church in Budapest, Hagia Sophia in Istanbul); why do you see no large, opulent cathedrals in ex-Ottoman cities such as Sofia and Belgrade dating back from Ottoman or pre-Ottoman times? The main reason was that if Vienna fell, the Ottomans would press on to Poland, Rome, France, and the rest of Western Europe, perhaps farther. If King Jan III Sobieski of Poland had not arrived in Vienna on 12th September 1683, the dynamics of global power would have been entirely different. Reclaim Your Stage: The Ottomans … Perhaps electricity in the 15th century, or radio in the 16th, or powered flight in the 17th? we would all see that the mafiosi are the best of people. Also, Silesia is drained by the Oder, not the Danube. As to the Netherlands, I’m speaking of the Spanish Netherlands — what is now today Belgium, more or less. Plan of Vienna, with the Turkish approaches. They battered, and dug at the hapless city, slowly closing in on the defenders. Archived. 25. And Venice was still a major power during that time, I doubt that it would fall too easily from an Ottoman attack. Many were killed. He commited suicide rather than give the Romans the satisfaction of capturing him. Suleiman ordered the city to be completely surrounded, and began attacking the makeshift city walls with Bombards. The Siege of Vienna in 1529 was the first attempt by the Ottoman Empire, led by Suleiman the Magnificent, to capture the city of Vienna, Austria. It involved the army of the Ottoman Empire, led by Suleiman the Magnificent. Had he succeeded in taking Vienna in 1529, the question is whether the Ottomans would have heavily reinforced Vienna or let it stand as an outpost. Indeed the Ottoman authorities went to great lengths to protect the Christian and Jewish ‘holy places’ in Jerusalem and Palestine, and regularly arbitrated in disputes. Speculative History. Thread starter kazeuma; Start date Nov 12, 2017; Tags battle ottomans vienna won; Home. “No threat from the Austrian Habsburgs would have freed the Bourbons from the threat and expense of war,”. The possibilities are endless and fascinating. Attacking Vienna was right at the bleeding edge of what they could support logistically. 17th century, during one of the conflicts between Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and the Ottoman Empire. What a desert of intelligence……. :661 The cavalry charge was one last deadly blow. Hungary and Persia did because they were right nextdoor to the bastards and were overwhelmed. If this “mind game” is supposed to be a proper case of cause and effect then I can only snicker. The Ottomans had set up an observation post on the heights known as Kahlenberg, overlooking Vienna, but a small force drove them away and shot off a rocket, to alert the city’s defenders that help was at hand. The thing is that the Ottomans didn't want Austria, and couldn't have conquered Linz (where the Emperor had fled) or Salzburg or other parts of Upper Austria anyways.. Ottoman Sultan SULEIMAN THE MAGNIFICENT led the Siege on Vienna in 1529. If the Muslims won the 718 siege of Constantinople the Italians would be Muslim and the Pope would be in England. The world faces a time of pluck and pull for wealth and power. Finally, note that even victorious Ottomans will still have to deal with Prince Eugene of Savoy (who defeated them repeatedly) and, a bit later, Peter the Great (who fought them to one victory and one draw, but with both wars draining immense amounts of limited Ottoman resources and causing them to lose ground elsewhere). If King Jan III Sobieski of Poland had not arrived in Vienna on 12th September 1683, the dynamics of global power would have been entirely different The victory at Vienna set the stage for the reconquering of Hungary and (temporarily) some of the Balkan lands in the following years by Louis of Baden, Maximilian Emmanuel of Bavaria and Prince Eugene of Savoy. K. kazeuma. As the motto of the influential anti-Islamic blog Gates of Vienna declares: ‘At the siege of Vienna in … Grubbiness and Comedy in Emerging Italian Cinema, Preventing Extremism, Protecting Institutions: Universities UK Guidance on External Speakers, An Interview with Ken Fero: Spotlight on UK Deaths in Police Custody in Ultraviolence. Meanwhile the Hapsburg Emperor Leopold I assembled a coalition including several German princes and the Polish King Jan Sobieski. So, come with me back to the 17th century and indulge in a ‘mind game’ – an exercise in counterfactual history. Dec 16, 2020 - Explore Bill Barber's board "Battle of Vienna", followed by 407 people on Pinterest. The main turkish attack was repulsed while their reinforcements from Germany and Poland, led by the famous Jan III Sobieski, charged agaisnt the ottoman lines and the turks lost 15,000 men and retreated. The Bourbons were at war pretty much nonstop throughout the 17th and 18th centuries. season. The battle of Vienna or siege of Vienna in 1683 changed the course of European history forever. But the Ottomans nevertheless fell steadily behind from the early 1700s onward, and the occasional new weapon or tactic from a defector was not nearly enough to offset this very broad long-term trend. Or, Ottoman forces might have used Vienna as a staging point for further penetration of the Danube valley. It’s hard to see how gaining a single city is going to alter that deep underlying trend. The Siege of Vienna, in 1529, was the first attempt by the Ottoman Empire to capture the city of Vienna, Austria. The Battle of Mohács in 1526 resulted in a decisive Ottoman victory over the forces of King Louis II (r. 1526–1526), ushering in political chaos and civil war in the former Hungarian kingdom. “the most important commercial route to the east would have been in Ottoman hands.” Vienna was indeed an important trading post in the 15th or 16th century, but as far as I know after the discovery of the New World and trade routes bypassing the Ottoman Empire it had lost some of its importance. Less than three hours after the cavalry attack, the Christian forces had won the battle and saved Vienna. Finally, you need to explain how the Ottoman state manages to keep up with Europe in terms of technology, administration, military organization and finance. 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